Doing excellent work matters. But it isn’t enough to guarantee that the right people know what you can do, think of you when opportunities appear, or understand the contribution you could make beyond the boundaries of your current role. In this Leadership at the Edge conversation, Andrea Levinson sits down with Leanne Hughes — speaker, facilitator, podcaster and author of Work Fame — to explore what it means to become known for your work without turning yourself into a personal brand performance.

What starts as a conversation about visibility quickly becomes something bigger: reputation, relationships, meaningful contribution, career trajectory and agency. Andrea and Leanne explore why the traditional ‘keep your head down and let the work speak for itself’ bargain breaks down as careers become more senior and less linear; why one-to-one conversations may be the most powerful Work Fame strategy of all; and why, in an AI-shaped world where information is increasingly commoditised, trust and human connection may become even more valuable career assets.

Five Things That Stayed With Me

1. Good work is the entry ticket, not the whole game

Work Fame isn’t about inflating weak work or becoming louder for the sake of attention. Contribution comes first. But workplaces are not pure meritocracies, and excellent work that remains visible only to your direct manager can limit the projects, promotions and possibilities that find you. Visibility is less about promoting yourself than making your ideas and contribution easier for other people to see and remember.

2. Reputation can restore trajectory when the ladder runs out

Early careers often provide obvious markers of progress: qualifications, promotions, new titles and bigger remits. At senior levels those external gold stars become less frequent. Work Fame creates other forms of expansion — lateral opportunities, industry contribution, invitations, relationships and experiences outside the formal job description — that can restore a sense of momentum without requiring the next rung on an org chart.

3. Your title is rented. Your reputation travels with you

A job title belongs to a box on an organisation chart; it is not the whole of who you are or what you can contribute. As careers become less linear and AI reshapes roles, Leanne describes Work Fame as a form of ‘career insurance’: a portable asset built from contribution, relationships and what people say about you when you are not in the room.

4. Work Fame scales beyond the individual

Teams and functions can be work famous too. If a function complains that it is brought in too late, lacks a seat at the table or is misunderstood by the rest of the business, the same principles apply: talk about results rather than activities, build one-to-one relationships across boundaries, and go on a listening tour before trying to broadcast a capability statement.

5. The most powerful spotlight may be conversation

Of Leanne’s three Work Fame spotlights — contribution, conversations and coverage — she would start with conversations. In a hyper-productive, hybrid and increasingly AI-driven world, genuine human conversation is difficult to scale and easy to dismiss as ‘not productive’. That may be exactly why it is so valuable. Relationships create trust, context, advocacy and opportunities that no amount of broadcasting can manufacture.

Work feeling ‘fine’? Use the Leadership energy reset to gain clarity and a specific path forward.

Quotes Worth Holding

"Work Fame is really about reputation.” - Leanne Hughes

“It’s not a meritocracy.” - Leanne Hughes

“The one thing that will go with you the whole time is your Work Fame. That travels with you.” - Leanne Hughes

“The title isn’t ours anyway. It belongs to a slot on an org chart.” - Andrea Levinson

“Work isn’t something where we’re just trading our time for money. It’s not just an economic exchange.” - Andrea Levinson

“There are just some things you cannot scale.” - Leanne Hughes

“Take more shots at goal.” - Andrea Levinson

What We Explored

0:00 Introduction: who is Leanne Hughes to teach us about Work Fame?
3:12 What Work Fame really means — and why it isn’t self-promotion
10:06 Beyond the job description: contribution, curiosity and impact
16:43 Why good work doesn't speak for itself
20:54 Loss of trajectory, meaningful work and finding new forms of progress
27:19 AI, portfolio careers and Work Fame as career insurance
32:23 Making your team, function or organisation work famous
39:32 The three spotlights — and where to start

About Leanne Hughes

Leanne Hughes is a keynote speaker, facilitator, host of the Leanne on Demand podcast and author of Work Fame: Get the Projects, Promotions and Perks You Deserve. Her work explores how people become known for the right things, build relationships that create opportunity, and make work more rewarding without becoming someone they are not.

If this conversation resonated, explore more insights and resources at andrealevinson.com.au

Full Transcript

Lightly edited for readability. The full timestamped version is available on YouTube.

0:00 — Introduction: why Work Fame, and who is Leanne Hughes to teach it?

ANDREA:looking forward to this conversation. We were talking a little bit before we hit go live about all things work fame and, you know, spotting threads of what you've shared in your book in past work history and all of those things. So, I can imagine some of that will come up in our conversation today. as with all Leadership at the Edge conversations, this is very much a conversation. and to anyone watching here live, drop in to the comments and let us know what you're curious about, what you really want us to touch on, and we'll make sure that we get to those ideas and those questions before we close out. to start with though, I just want to poke you a little bit in the kindest possible way. And so you've written a book about work fame, which I love. Pretty much finished it in a couple of days, which is amazing. But who are you, Leanne Hughes, to teach us about becoming work famous? Yeah, I

LEANNE:love this question and feel free to poke any time, Andrea. And if you are joining us on a live stream, we want your pokey questions as well to come through. I guess one thing was I think I invented the phrase work fame and it was just an off-hand comment. I was trying to describe someone within an organization who was like getting all these cool opportunities and traveling around the world. And it was like, look, they're not celebrity famous or internet famous, but they're work famous. And it's like you kind of understand what it is in that context. and the reason I guess why why I feel I could write on it is the experience that I had. So this book was really written for the Leanne of 2016. and what I share in the book is when I was I left a really great job in regional Western Australia in Broom and I moved back to Brisbane for what I thought was my dream job on paper. And a few weeks into that, I was like, "This is like I'm just at my computer. I'm just emailing and pinging people and this is not the dream job." And I was starting to question all of that. Like just I don't know many of your listeners and viewers have felt that way in an organization where you join, you're really keen to contribute, you're like, "This is great." And then you're like, "Well, I'm not this something's not right here. I'm not coming through." So yeah, the book is really just documenting a lot of the things that I

LEANNE:tried, what I've seen other people try within organizations to get to make work really great for themselves because they've have they've got this sort of brand within the organization. They're thought of when cool opportunities and projects come up. So yeah, it was written for it's a book that I wish I had in 2016.

ANDREA:Yeah, it sounds like you've done a lot of experimentation, playing, trial and error to get to this point now. And we're very lucky that you get to share all of that with us, the cheat sheet or the cheat codes. what is it do you think about work fame that is different to the idea of fame in general or personal branding?

3:12 — What Work Fame actually means — and why it isn’t personal branding

LEANNE:Like what are we really talking about with work fame? Yeah, I think the misconception with the word fame, like I think people look at fame and like they're they get allergic to it because it's like, oh my gosh, fame, like who wants that? But it really is about what fame is. Like we kind of want what fame delivers. We want the perks. We want to go to get invited to the cool parties and get access to amazing people. So I think it goes beyond personal branding. And I' I've been a bit tongue and cheek saying it's the smarter alternative to personal branding because we all already have a personal brand like regardless. But work fame is actually around first of all you've got to be a good contributor. Like this is not about inflating stuff that doesn't exist. Like you've got to be good at what you do. Like that's the base level. But then it's about acting in ways and using language and ways and building relationships that then can create and generate those cool things as well. So yeah, Andrea, what about you? Do you see like it sounds like you've been you know in your career you've also been through a journey of becoming work famous and getting cool opportunities like travel like how yeah how has work fame worked for you?

ANDREA:I really like this question and yes, in hindsight, absolutely. Not that I ever set out to be work famous. one of the things that absolutely came out of the three spotlights, right? So, in the book, three spotlights, three core things that are important for for work fame. yes, contribution, conversations, coverage. Read the book. or ask us a question. We ain't going to answer. in hindsight, one of the things that that gifted me was an international road trip across North America, Canada, and New Zealand, which sounds funner and sexier than it is. Anyone who's done work travel kind of knows, that it's not as cool as it sounds. but I very much remember a moment in the taxi heading from the airport at Vancouver to the event venue in Vancouver kind of going, "This is what it's like to be on tour." Like literally on tour. You land, you go, you do the thing. you see some people and you leave. so that was an awesome experience in and of itself, but also, and I think this is part of your point as well, the depth of relationship, the trust, the visibility, the credibility, the conversations, the bonding in, you know, middle of nowhere kind of airports at 1000 p.m. Those sorts of experiences are so potent in creating future opportunities or easing the pathway for things later. It became so much easier for me to get anything through the GMs of North America because we had essentially flown side by side around the country. Yeah.

LEANNE:Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. I think I want to say good day to we got Meg and Christine in the house. So great to hear. I'd love to hear their thoughts on on work fame as well and their ideas. But you're right. Yeah. And I think I think a lot of the time with fame, we kind of feel like we have to broadcast, but like you're alluding to Andrea, it really is the depth of the one-to-one relationships. And we're living in a world now in 2026 where it's all about, you know, feeling like you got to scale everything. But there's just some things you cannot scale. And I think Work Fame is really about reputation. And in the market that we're in now where so much is commoditized because of AI, what is going to cut through is actually those one-to-one relationships. And like you said, in those opportunities where you're it's kind of outside the general work context. and a lot of work fame as well is like people I wrote it for this person that is like doing really well within their organization. Their manager knows this, but no one else around the organization knows it or they've been typ cast into certain roles. So if you're you're the IT guy, you're the Excel girl, you know, and it's like we kind of it's kind of dangerous doing that because we lose the potential. We don't see the value and the expertise that is actually there. And I think, you know, if you are interested in breaking out of that type cast, you can do it, but you need to be intentional around that as well.

6:36 — Reputation, relationships and the things you cannot scale

ANDREA:So true. and look perhaps like addition to the fund in North America tour that was like me supporting a brand roll out technically a marketing thing as a global head of an a people function which is not the sort of thing that you would be doing right and we managed to marry this idea of hey brand actually linked with culture self-s served you know part of what I was trying to do but that's certainly not an opportunity that would naturally have fit within the job description, right? which is part of what part of what you're naming. I think you're also speaking to how we've evolved the the meaning we give the word fame like to get semantic for a second. and this is called out in the forward of the the book as well. and a couple of points that are made there. one back in the 13th century middle English yeah fame is about character and it's about the renown and I can imagine 13th century you know spreading from village to village that you know this this story or the fame of a particular person there's there's much more I suppose virtuous elements to fame when we look at it that way and the biblical framing around the quality of a person's integrity trustworthiness and their spiritual weight. Like it's not about being Instagram famous or TikTok famous or you know all sheen and no substance which I think is the fear a lot of really credible, intelligent, professional, serious people have behind this sort of you know I'm allergic to the idea of fame or visibility.

8:34 — Reclaiming “fame” from the ick of self-promotion

ANDREA:Meg's just commenting there's I also sort of separate the person and persona from myself. There are some parts of me I don't want to share but I can decide the persona that I share which is also I think a really important point around we get to keep some things private and then we get to keep some things public but what's your take on that? Yeah,

10:06 — Beyond the job description: peripheral vision, contribution and aliveness

LEANNE:definitely. I think and you know that kind of relates to Johar's window around what what do you decide to share and I think a lot of it is around that narrative and it's not about yeah, you know, it's not about being completely transparent, opening the kimono on everything, but the key idea really is like what do you want to be famous for and then driving the narrative in that direction. and I think where I was sort of lost within big organizations is because you get a job and I think the job description does kind of lock you in. And I'm fascinated to hear your thoughts on this, Andrea, because people want so much clarity on their job description and like what am I actually doing? Yet, we live in a world where it is topsyturvy. There is change. Like it it actually works in your favor to go beyond that job description. but there seems to be this thing around like I'm just going to go in and do the expectations. Yet, you know, the trip that you were on that marketing trip, you know, you wouldn't have thought like that would never have been something on that job description. Yet, it opened up these great opport you've got to be, I guess, and something I talk about is just having that peripheral vision and being okay to use your skill set. but also direct it in a way where like is this potentially, you know, where I want to go? And just having that north star for yourself as well. And

ANDREA:if I take those ideas and play with them a little bit, this leaning into what is my job description like that absolute need for certainty and clarity around what is my lane and how do I deliver value? yes, we all need clarity and at the moment there is not a lot of that and I get that in life when everything else feels beyond our control, we look for avenues where we can exert some control and we can create some clarity and maybe for a lot of people that is you know what is my thing at work? What do you need from me? Because I want to feel like I'm delivering on that. That can be quite adaptive, right? Yeah. But also if we're really narrow in our focus without keeping the north star in mind, we're we're sort of keeping ourselves I want to say small, and I don't want that to be disrespectful to anybody, but yeah, we're keeping ourselves small smaller than perhaps we could be. And as much as we're gaining clarity and maybe a bit of certainty, as much as I think that could be manufactured, we're losing meaning or fulfillment or adventuring or aliveness in the work that we are doing as a result.

12:50 — Talk in results, not tasks — and stop mistaking busy work for impact

LEANNE:I really love that way that you frame that. And I think you know job security we've heard like all these organizations and you know layoffs and things like that. It really is important to keep your head up and because I think something I write about is talking in results and not tasks and this is something I even do as a like so a lot of these things that I write about in work fame related to employees are actually really adaptable to us as consultants and solopreneurs. something that I get often caught up with when I first started was talking about what I'm doing like the tasks and Alan Weiss who wrote the forward that you quoted before you know he says to me you know something he says is no one cares about your methodology and I think okay whatever you're doing in your lane like with the clarity that you've got what is the result that's creating and potentially like how is that improving the business how is that improving your clients and customers lives we need to be thinking out there now as opposed to just this is the task I deliver. It needs to be about that greater purpose and connecting into that. and so yeah, like just like using language and just just again that broader vision rather than narrower. I think just it's a mindset shift, but it's also like just paying attention to the world around you. Yes. And being curious, curious and open.

ANDREA:and I get and I can hear the voice of a lot a lot of senior leaders, a lot of executives, a lot of the people that I work with in my head going, "Andrea, but I'm too I'm too busy. They're like their head is spinning. There is no time. There is no space. You're telling me to, you know, be curious and open and but that like where do I where do I put that and how do I do that?" This sense that, you know, we're all stretched. We're all Yeah. busy. And sometimes that's true. and sometimes we're busy being busy to avoid the real thing.

LEANNE:Yes. Yes. Yeah. Can I just add to that because I think because I think we've both been there like we're like I've just got to you know I've woken up. I've got all these things on my calendar and deadlines like let's just work through the list. I think it's a quite dangerous place to be in. I think the reason you know we talked about so you talking about keeping your head up and thinking about the results and the impact. It's not a fluffy, this is not a you should do this. This is mand I honestly think this is mandatory because if you actually do question what is the impact of what I'm doing. You realize that half of the things you're actually doing aren't moving the needle in that direction anyway. and one thing I didn't write about in my book but I often share so this is back in that 2016 job. I was asked to like every month I had to write this report and get data. It took ages to gather all the data, write the report, I'd submit it every month. I would never get feedback on this, Andrea. And so, you start questioning like, what is the value and impact of this? Why am I doing it? Why am I doing it? And so, I was a bit cheeky. hence why I don't write about it and put it in print, but I just started submitting the same report every month. I didn't even change the headlines from like August to October. I just kept it as August. and again, no feedback. So, it gave me leverage to say to my manager like, "What's the point of doing this?" And we just stopped it.

LEANNE:there's a lot of Yeah, you talked about busy work, just so much busy work, but that is obviously quite there's maverick behavior in that. And I think when you're work famous, there's a sense of getting okay with being uncomfortable, facing rejection. Like, it's not this is not like a walk through rainbows and grass with sausage dogs. like there's there's great things on the other side of it, but it it's not an easy thing to do. It does require that out of comfort zone type of feeling. Yeah.

16:43 — Why good work does not speak for itself

ANDREA:Yeah. And I suddenly work with and see a lot of senior leaders who are raised on this do excellent work, keep your head down, the work speaks for itself. this sense of perhaps it's particularly Gen X or or early millennial, maybe maybe not. this sense of, you know, I'm going to do great work and my capability is what's going to get me ahead. and loyalty is what matters. And I see that being the source of a lot of irritation or frustration for some leaders when they see people who perhaps don't have those beliefs getting perks, promotions, projects that they would consider kind of them theirs as like the next turn. but these people who are thinking and I have thought this before but the people who are thinking you know my great work speaks for itself or that's what I want to happen. What are they misunderstanding about visibility?

LEANNE:Well, I think that the first misunderstanding and so this is my like the character you're talking about is my dad and that that was his career advice to me and yeah, it got to a point where it's like this I mean I love my dad and he's done well and but this isn't working for me personally because of the market that we're in now. And I think the false assumption is that it is a meritocracy. It's totally not a meritocracy. It's not. And look, I this the type of character you're talking about is who the book was written for. like these people who are waiting and I'm I'm the in in terms of the lesson around v visibility is I'm saying don't wait like if you want to if you want that clarity take that control and do what you can and here are some ways that you can do that. So I think just the number one thing is just remember like I think we're brought up thinking like everything is is fair and you know we go to school we get graded we go to university we get marks based on our capability right so these marks reflect that that but then you enter the real world of work and you think oh it's going to be the same thing like I'll do really well on this I get an A+ for this project surely they'll it's it stops right there and so you're in this world now where it is actually about and not and the book is not about it's not about taking selfies and promoting yourself that way, but it's about promoting your ideas and the contribution and shining a spotlight on the ideas.

LEANNE:And I love like when Meg talked about separating the person and persona. I guess how I like to think about it is it's almost like a Buddhist approach. It's like separating Leanne from the idea that I'm presenting to the world. And I want that idea to do really well and then as a you know, it reflects well on me. But I yeah, I just love that idea of just having that separation there because if it is just you as the person putting yourself out there, of course your ego like it's all it's it it is personal. No, it is personal when you get feedback. So just have that bit of a separation. How about you like Andrew? How do you what's your advice for for those great performers out there that aren't getting the recognition? really change your belief around what

ANDREA:you're first of all what you're seeking but also what warrants recognition right because to your point there's there's a core story that we're telling ourselves that we learned through uni through our early career and I think for a lot of us early career yes those first promotional bumps come from capability they come from come as perhaps more equitable objective assessments of what we're what we're doing and what we're delivering and then the more senior we become the more ambiguous that becomes the busier everyone becomes like the less likely we are to talk about any of that right yeah separation I like the way that yeah I as you was sharing that I was like I could just see like this graph like you know mapping like the certainty of promotion when you're a graduate and Then yeah the ambiguity then there's a cool graph in that I often talk about loss of trajectory as one of the things that really saps a leader sense of momentum or energy or just confidence in a role and some of that is the way careers work particularly in professions right so my first 25 years were registered psychologist very firmly in a professional container. and there are really clear box ticks and promotions and label changes and that come with that as with a lot of other careers, right? So, we're we're kind of like trending upwards, trending upwards, trending upwards, but then inevitably like once you've hit a level of maturity, I like to think of it as cruising altitude.

20:54 — Loss of trajectory, cruising altitude and finding new forms of progress

ANDREA:We're not getting that so much. And whether it's the dopamine hits, the external gold stars or whatever it is, it's sort of driving the energy for us, it tapers off. and some of that's quite natural. I also think this idea of work fam and being able to gain access to what I guess traditionally would be called lateral moves or even things slightly beyond your remitt or external in industry gives us an opportunity to continue to feel that expansion that elevation or that sense of trajectory or momentum beyond the container of the seat that you're sitting in or the role that you're in. And back to your question earlier around you this desire for people to have certainty or clarity around the role and the position description. Part of the challenge of that is we see our contribution, we see our career as purely this role in this organization, so this particular seat versus how I'm contributing to my community or to the industry or globally or in some other some other way. And you've got some really great examples in the book around how work fame is or what you're calling work fame has allowed people to to do that. But I think that's a really important thing to bear in mind as well.

LEANNE:Yeah, I think so. I think like one of the cool case studies is a guy called Anthony Deanti and he's a civil engineer and he so just one example of how he sort of like he hasn't changed roles at all but he started a podcast around civil engineering. It's called the good drop. It's about water. like what a great title for a podcast. But he did it just to keep in touch with a colleague that left his organization. He's like, "Oh, I really like this guy. Let's keep in touch." And so, yes, they they started this podcast and as a result, Anthony then like the CEO of a pipes company in Switzerland invited him over to do a tour of of the plant. he won the water engineer of the year for Queensland. Like, so so I So, Andrew is at the point where he's like, "Yeah, mid mid-career. Where's the promotion there?" Yeah, but he's getting these kicks from all this other cool stuff. And like these are the perks that can exist outside of like, oh, I just get promoted because sometimes also getting promoted isn't the best reward either. Like taking on more responsibility and maybe the compensation doesn't reflect like the the step that you've taken. So, it's really around like can we enjoy work a bit more? And I kind of did, you know, I was getting a little bit over the whole quiet quitting narrative because and I know like from a couple years ago because people I just find if you're

LEANNE:coasting like if you're in third gear at work I don't know I just feel like it impacts your life like why not give your work and your life everything there's more to live and I think we can use work as one of the tools to enable a good life as well. So yeah, I liked your call out around that that mid-career like where where do you go? Well, guess what? There actually are other perks and your and your organization doesn't have to be the only provider of those perks.

ANDREA:Yes. And to use your language, when you're looking up and out and kind of using your peripheral vision, it becomes so much easier to see these slightly left of center external to organization ways that you can add color and aliveness and meaning to your work. And part of what you're talking to, right, is the role that work and meaningful, fulfilling work that gives us a sense of agency and autonomy. and yes, connections and recognition, but the role that that plays in, you know, our mental well-being and creating a fulfilling life. So, this idea that work actually isn't something where we're just trading our time for money. It's not just an economic exchange. Yeah, it's something that from a deeply human perspective we find nourishing in a whole range of different ways. And again, saying I'm coming in, I'm doing this job, I'm going to sit within the box of that job, I think misses the opportunity for a lot of that color. Appreciating that sometimes in life stages with other things that's that's yes, the maximum that's possible, right? Yeah. And I like to think for most people in most circumstances most of the time there is a lot more opportunity for us to gain meaning and fulfillment from the work which enhances our life overall.

25:04 — Meaningful work, agency and why work shapes the rest of life

LEANNE:Yeah. I mean big time. I don't know if you've been in roles where you have not felt fulfilled or on Sunday evening you've been like I've been in I've been there and I have not looked forward to work on Monday and it spills into your life. you're just not a fun person to be around when you have that sense of dread. Whereas on the other hand, if you're invigorated by what you do, people love being around you. so yeah, it's and it's not something we should outsource to to an organization to take care of our happiness. It's up to us. I think we can drive it. you used the words before, agency, autonomy. yeah, I think it's about Yeah. actually getting power back to yourself and like you can have have a fulfilling work life. You really can. and deserve it. I think there are some people who perhaps struggle with that as well. It's like do I really deserve that? You know, am I am

ANDREA:I worthy? to to pick up on this thread of almost the necessity for looking at work in a slightly different way. We have come from a time where the traditional career ladder has been a very linear upward kind of trajectory and all of the signals are that that era is essentially shifting if it hasn't already shifted for you. And that doesn't necessarily mean that if you're in a corporate role, you're not going to be in 10 years time, but the shape of the way we want our work to look is very different. So there's all of these predictions around increasing numbers of solopreneurs, consultants, advisers. this idea of portfolio careers where we've got a couple of different roles or a main role in a side hustle. and I can imagine I'm curious whether you had this in mind when you were writing the book as well, but I can imagine in that future and a lot of the dates that people talk about, so the World Economic Forum talks about here or 2030, which I might point out is like 3 years and maybe three months away. 2030 when when these things are meant to kind of be be playing out more. Your reputation, your visibility, your work fame is significantly more important when work is shaping up that way.

27:19 — Portfolio careers, AI and Work Fame as career insurance

LEANNE:Yeah. Well, I think it that that's exactly why I wrote the book at this time because I even I was thinking we're both solopreneurs. You're thinking, okay, AI is coming our jobs are shifting. clients want less of the information like what do they actually want from us? Why are they choosing us? Why are they choosing us? it becomes down to who they who they want to work with like and who that person is. Back to the fame, back to the trust element, back to the whole relationship thing. It's the in the world of AI where a lot of information and people can become commoditized like if you sort of niche down into a specific area it it has the opportunity of technology sort of out outpacing you in that regard. So the being being a generalist, your relationships, the brand that you have, whether you are working within a business and you are or you have a portfolio career or you have a side hustle or you want to do your own thing, the one thing that will will go with you the whole time is your work fame. Like that travels with you. So it's like the number one career asset that you can have. and the reason why like it's so personal, that's a great thing. like no one can replicate you, but but what is that message that people are hearing about you and what are they saying about you when you're not around? So that's that's why like the timeliness of this book I think is so important is given what's going on in the world, how do we it's like career insurance.

LEANNE:How do we Yeah look after ourselves? It's it's rebuilding that. Yeah.

ANDREA:Yeah. Yeah. I like that career career insurance perspective. And part of what we're talking about I think is you what am I attaching my identity to you and if it's this kind of broader sense of work fame and contribution and the connections and relationships and visibility versus one seat in one organization if we are you know restructured or that organ that role title is no longer ours because let's be honest the title isn't ours anyway. it belongs to a slot on an old chart in an organization and it's not all of us anyway. so we've got this broader sense of who we are and what we are contributing. You know multiple legs to that stool versus the one. it is a very protective mechanism as well as being I can imagine the thing that potentially opens other doors if one closes. Yeah, I really like I hadn't heard that framing before of that that job title isn't yours. It's just an org chart. You're like sitting in its place for that moment in time. That is a beautiful framing like frame, Andrea. I love it. because I do think Yeah. The reason we get so attached to a certain role. Yeah. We think we own it. We think this is our life. We're locked in and then obviously things happen. and we can't control that, but what we can control is the person that can take that somewhere else or move around. yeah, that's a really cool frame. I'm glad that lands. Take it. Run. Run with it.

LEANNE:I actually heard that first, I think, from a beautiful person called Julie Fideli, and I hope I'm saying her surname correctly. who works in the space of portfolio careers, but she talks a lot about, you know, the title is rented. So, it feels beautiful, right? I'm like, "Yeah, but our name belongs to us." Our name belongs to us. Yes. Yeah. 100%. is there a way is there a way that

32:23 — Can a team, function or organisation become work famous?

ANDREA:this work fame idea applies to teams, functions or organizations? So if I'm the leader of a particular function and sure maybe I'm a little bit shy and making myself famous but also perhaps I just want my team to be more visible and and you know more brought into the loop or work more effectively cross functionally and you know visibility and attraction as a part of that. How do you see work fame and perhaps the three spotlights playing out in that?

LEANNE:Yeah. Well, what's been interesting is since releasing the book, it's actually been teams that have wanted me to do work fame for their collective function because and it's the the comments are more like, oh, you know, we can't get a seat at the table or we're brought in too late for the conversation and no one's consulting us before. And it's really around, you know, when I go in to work with these teams, probably that the most common thing is they are just talking about what we do. And so they'll send out capability statements like this is what we do, but it's not about here are the results that we create or they haven't formed and actually gone out and sought out those one-to-one relationships. Like so again, one of the scenes I talk about is go on a listening tour. Like just go out and talk to people in other functions, no agenda, you just want to find out stuff about them. And the beauty of that is like a it's so Michael Banga who we both know is he talks about lazy leadership but this is just a way of it's lazy leadership like you go out you go hey what are you working on and you listen for 30 minutes but there's so many advantages to that so you hear what's going on what they what they really care about people actually I mean have when you get invited to a listening tour like it is a super rare thing and to be able to talk to someone I think we a lot of the time we think adding value

LEANNE:is giving people content and telling you know telling you being the expert but you can add value just by being that person that listens to to other people. So yeah, so that's so it works beautifully for for teams. And then one example I gave for organizations was there's at the back of the book a huge pharmaceutical company called Seni. They actually have the internal influencer program. So they got 6,000 employees around the world. They teach them how to to in the coverage like post content and share information about and pharmaceuticals highly regulated. They give them guardrails around what they can post. they incentivize them and they've got so the beauty of that is they've got people within their business promoting what this company does and how much they enjoy working there which attracts their network of other people working in the industry and makes that an employer that you'd want to work with. So yeah, it works on on various levels. Basically if if you're a human and you love your job that is a really great reflection on your team, on your manager and or on your organization as well. So it works Yes.

ANDREA:Yeah. I love that. And certainly the we get brought in too late and they don't understand what we do and all of these all of these things. I hear a lot of as well. the listening to our idea is so simple. I think it's easy to underestimate or undervalue the potency or impact of just that one strategy. and I remember reading some maybe neuroscience recently talking about, you know what, if you want people to like you and having people kind of approach you, include you like that, you know, no like and trust is really important, but feeling like a human being that they can connect to. asking for their perspective, asking for something that only they can share is a really simple way to do that. And obviously then you need to listen to your point, better empathy, better listening, give them some space. But when we're sharing something that only we can talk about, talk to my perspective or my take on, you know, how culture is playing out across this particular organization or the history of that really reinforces a sense of I get a positive buzz from that because I'm talking about my stuff and hey, because I've got this positive buzz with you that leans into the relationship

LEANNE:that we're forming together. Yeah, I think Benjamin Franklin wrote about that as well in his autobiography. Like there was a there was a guy that hated him. they just had this awful and I'm totally misquing, but the essence of the story is here. and so Ben Franklin tried everything to get along with this guy and he just kind of refused to talk to him. And then Ben's like heard that this guy had a collection of of ancient books and he asked asked him about like looking at that and the guy was flattered. He's like great I'd love to show you my collection. and then they became friends after that. So, yeah, Andrew, you're you're spot on. and I think it's hard when you write a book because I I agree with you. I think it's with the listening tour. I was like, I really wanted to be like, this is really powerful, but like you can't, you know, put multiple exclamators like know multiple exclamation marks, but like thank you for calling that out in terms of it.

ANDREA:It's underrated. It's an easy thing to not do, but that's why it's important to do. so underrated. I remember starting a new role in a new function in a new organization and there like there was there was nothing established to do, right? Cuz it was all new. But one of the things that I was doing was talking with all of the leaders and the executives. And it felt a bit at the time like this isn't, you know, being productive. This is yeah, I'm just swinging around sitting down having conversations with people. So, it's also I think sometimes we feel as though we're not doing something when we're when we're engaged in those sorts of activities, but it was one of the single most powerful things that I did in establishing that function. 100% do not underestimate the value of a listening tour.

LEANNE: I was going to say damn it it's too late to include your story in the book because that would have been perfect like to include that snapshot but I and also the struggle of it because I think yeah we live in this sort of hyperefficient world where it's every time you decide to do something it's like is there an ROI here and a lot of stuff I talk about is there is no direct ROI but also something I argue is that even by doing these things you become a better person you build your confidence regardless of what happens and we can't control what happens out here. It's only the yeah what we do ourselves.

ANDREA:it's time to kind of start to bring this plane in into land. There's a couple of thoughts sitting in my head that are going to escape me now that I've said that. And I hate it when that happens. but one of those she says, hoping that it just lands in her brain again. M. No, not going to. It will land the second we stop this. It'll like it will land then away. Sure it will. Sometimes my brain just does not play ball. if I were to ask you of the three spotlights, so contribution, conversation, and coverage, yeah, what is the most powerful one? or how does someone know where they should invest their effort? Yeah, would you say?

39:32 — The three spotlights: contribution, conversations and coverage

LEANNE:Well, I I mean I'm going to answer that. So, the most important one is definitely conversations for me. and I actually talk about it at two levels. One-to-one conversations and then group conversations. But that would be I think the number one thing. but there is like in the book there is a bit of a scorecard. So, there's a light touch scorecard in the book. And then I've got in the resources at getworkfame.com/start there's like a full scorecard so you can go in and self assess on where you are and then which spotlight needs more of the light. but there's really work famous people that do contribution and conversations really well and they don't need to do coverage. So coverage is more about like the industry and global work fame that you want outside of the organization. but if you were just to roll on conversations, I think you'd be successful because the world, it's a relationship game. So, I would start there. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense to me.

ANDREA:And also, particularly in a hyperproductive, increasingly hybrid, disconnected, isolated, AI-driven world. That sounds very dystopian. Yeah, but it's true. It's true. It's so true. genuine human conversation is a very valuable, powerful, potent thing to do. And you're reminding me of a CFO that I coached years in like a long time ago. and he was like, "Yeah, yeah, all's good. All's good. There's this one person. She just doesn't like me." so, you know, we don't really have our one-on- ones, whatever. I was like, "What?" on so many fronts. like what? but also the only the simplest thing shifted that relationship and how that person felt in their their work and the overall team vibe and guess what it was? Go and have a conversation and you know instigate the connection and go and get a coffee and ask about the human. And it's not rocket science and it is really easy to see that as not productive work. But time and time and time again, I see it in others and I experience it myself. That is the thing that ultimately shifts the dial. so I see something deeply human and connected in this idea of work fame and the road map that you've created for people around how they might be able to seek out some more of that for themselves. A thank you so much and thank you for putting that so

LEANNE:eloquently. I couldn't put it better myself honestly. Like you just described it beautifully and Andrea I think I mean there's definitely a book in you. I mean I'm excited to read some Yeah. You've got some great career stories and experience. So one day we'll be switching and I'll be hosting you on a live stream talking about your book one day.

42:44 — Take more shots at goal: self-trust, discomfort and creating opportunity

ANDREA:Sure. Why not? there's a phrase sitting in the back of my head listening to you speak as well, that I'm just going to share and then I'm going to ask you for one final piece of advice. If people were going to do one thing in the next week to influence their work fame, what would it what would it be? but before we come to that for you, one of the things that's sitting in the back of my mind is this idea of take more shots at goal. and if you want to, you know, kind of achieve something or have something that's a little bit unusual, be it the per promotion, what projects, whatever, more shots at goal, right? And being in the arena and having the repetition and kind of just being in the game. I think it was Harrison Ford basically said, and I could be misquing, you know, he basically got famous because he stuck around longer than everybody else, right? Because he wasn't even an actor. He wasn't he just a a he wasn't he on set moving some Yeah, he was on set doing some work and then someone just saw him and Yeah, great example. Fab example. so this idea of more shots at goal and this this idea of what some people would talk to as shoot your shot Wednesday or dulu Wednesday. I don't know why Wednesday gets the wrap, but you know do the uncomfortable thing, make the big ask. try something a little bit different and it just has to be that one thing once a week and then you end up with 52 things, you know, by the end of the year and something's going to pay off.

LEANNE:I That's so cool. I didn't know that was a thing, but I Yeah, I'd call it wild card Wednesday because I do it, too. Like, oh, wouldn't it be cool? Yeah, wouldn't it be cool if this happened? Like, and then just send an email, send a message. yeah, I think I think that's a great and something I talk Andrew Thomas featured in the book, he he says that he goes, "I don't think I'm of any sort of superior talent or or intellect, but I took the shots or I created shot opportunities where there were no shots." So, it links in nicely. Yeah. and

ANDREA:this idea that we have that the people who get the most attention or the most accolades to your point at the very beginning around it's not a meritocracy. We kind of think that you know what they've got the superhuman capability or talent or they're more researched or they've got better footnotes or they've whatever and none of that like those things don't relate but they're normal people. They're just normal but they've just like looked up and gone wouldn't that be cool if and then then they've actually kind of backed themselves. So or you know or they've had like someone early in their career that said you should give that a go and listen to that person because it is good when you have advocates when you don't believe in yourself as well. but it is there's an element of definitely selfrust in this as as part of it. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So, I've probably stolen your thunder to my question a little bit and I'm apologize for that, but what is the one thing this week if somebody wanted to take a tiptoe step towards being more work famous or building their their work fame? What is that that thing that you would recommend?

46:02 — One practical starting point: take a “Walk of Fame”

LEANNE:Yeah, I think it's a tiptoe step in the right direction. I mean, something I write about at right at the beginning is going on a walk of fame. So I would just encourage you go out for a daily go for your daily walk but instead of having your AirPods in, you know, we spoke about looking at the world and observing it, keep your head up and say hello to strangers that you walk past. And the reason I suggest this is completely outside of the work context is that this is the element, this is the underpinning thing of everything in the book is like being awake, being open, and it feels uncomfortable saying hi to people. I get rejected often on my walks. People don't say hello back. It feels weird. just you walk it off. But you get used to that on a morning walk and it kind of sets you up for then as Andrea you were talking about then taking a shot on a Wednesday like a bigger shot. So I'd

ANDREA:encourage you and plus you feel great after going for a walk. So it's just a good thing to do. So good and really really achievable. You're talking about like widening our zone of discomfort, right? and getting comfortable with, you know, giving it a go and tracking the fact that you're doing it, not looking at the value of it and how the other person responds. As somebody who sometimes gets people saying hello to me on morning walks, I'm going to say if I don't say hello back, sometimes it's because my brain isn't working yet and I haven't stopped the social cue fast enough. Yeah. So, we can also we can also learn to assume assume some positive intent in those reps as well perhaps.

LEANNE:I agree. I agree. And we just can't control other people. We can only control how we show up and what we feel. So, I'm the same as you sometimes. I'm like I'm so just in my own thoughts or into a podcast that I'm I'm that person that doesn't say hi back too. So, no one's perfect. We're all a work in progress. We so are. you're starting to say hi and they're already here and you're like I'm saying I'm saying hello to

ANDREA: All right. Thank you so much, Leanne, for jumping into the conversation, for sharing so vibrantly and generously of your experience and the genius that you've brought to work fame. Of course, I'm going to encourage anybody to read it. It's great. and what I love in part is, yes, the stories, the humor that you bring into the very tactical, powerful stuff that you're talking about, but also the fact that so much of it is really actionable. We're not talking, concepts, philosophy. We're talking about how you might actually nuts and bolts do this. Yeah. And again, in a world that is moving super fast with lots of complexity, that simplicity, which is hard to achieve, is such a gift for people. So, thank you.

LEANNE: Thank you. Thank you for your kind words. Like, that really means a lot coming from you, Andrea. so yeah, thank you. And thank you for the lovely conversation and riffing ideas and just hearing your experiences as well. It's been awesome today. So, thanks.

ANDREA: Pleasure. So good to have you along. Leanne, thank you so much.